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std
09-02-2006, 01:16 PM
Has anyone read it/is anyone reading it? Thoughts?

ggfunk
09-02-2006, 02:11 PM
As much as I am a fan of Alan Moore, this project sickens me.

Incognito
09-02-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't have the money for it. I'd really like to read it but I'll have to wait a year or two.

Red
09-02-2006, 05:24 PM
**** Alan Moore.

ggfunk
09-02-2006, 07:29 PM
"****" the (perhaps) greatest comic book writer of all time? Okay.
There is no perhaps. He truly is.

Darth Nevets
09-02-2006, 09:49 PM
Like some of his work, but not this. Its truly horrible, so softminded and undercooked and half baked... Errr.

Old Yeller
09-02-2006, 11:07 PM
**** Alan Moore.:rolleyes:
Like some of his work, but not this. Its truly horrible, so softminded and undercooked and half baked... Errr.So you've read it, then.

Darth Nevets
09-03-2006, 03:54 PM
So you've read it, then.
I tried, it is the only comic I was unable to finish. Its artwork is so soft focused and blurry it repulses. Even the lettering is annoying. The plot is nothing but shock A then shock B. His attempts to deconstruct mythological people go from great, Watchmen, to okay, League, but this is nonsense.

ggfunk
09-03-2006, 05:45 PM
I tried, it is the only comic I was unable to finish. Its artwork is so soft focused and blurry it repulses.
It is truly terrible.

Corporeal
09-03-2006, 07:36 PM
As much as I am a fan of Alan Moore, this project sickens me. **** Alan Moore Again with this nonsense.

Old Yeller
09-03-2006, 11:08 PM
I don't know what the hell you're talking about, the art looks great to me. Certainly much better than the Jim Lees and Greg Lands of the current superhero scene.

It's been getting stellar reviews so far. The only negative comments I've seen are from people who don't approve of the subject matter. Here are some excerpts from www.topshelfcomix.com:
"Beautiful, literary and moving." -- Douglas Wolk, Publishers Weekly

"As thoughtful as it is provocative." -- Eric Steuer, Wired Magazine

"A pornographic work of art." -- Alejandro Arbona, Wizard Magazine

"I just received your amazing book. This is unlike anything else I've ever seen: intriguing, entrancing and erotic too. It really is fantastic. I suddenly feel very lazy by comparison. Congratulations on an epoch-making -- or at least 'epoch-shaking' -- piece of work." -- Brian Eno

"So realistic it feels as if you knew the erotic mythology all along in your bones." -- Susie Bright

"I think Lost Girls is not only one of the best things Alan Moore has ever written, I also think it’s a fairly important work of art judged by any standard. It’s genuinely dangerous. … One of the most human and heartfelt pieces of work of his career." -- Moriarty, Ain't It Cool News

"Lost Girls is to erotic literature what Moore's now classic 1987 Watchmen (with Dave Gibbons) was to the superhero scene. Each busts the frames of its respective genre with formal precision; each reflects upon its own ways and means through books within the book; and, most importantly, each kicks great writing into hyperdrive with dense and resonant imagery. -- Richard Gehr, The Village Voice

"Moore and Gebbie might very well have split the atom here. Filmmakers have for decades tried to make truly artistic smut and failed miserably. Moore and Gebbie succeed. ... a stone masterpiece … a stunning narrative achievement." -- Joe Gross, Decibel Magazine

"The word "fantasy" carries its full erotic implications when applied to Alan Moore's bewitching masterpiece, Lost Girls. … This Kama Sutra for the comic -book set should elicit fervent reactions not only for its sly premise but also for its intellectual commentary on free speech, Western prudishness and the futility of war." -- Kirkus Reviews

"In a frank and purposeful effort of madness and genius, as only he is capable of, comic book icon Alan Moore, along with gifted artist and fiancée Melinda Gebbie, uses Lost Girls to explore the nature of the human sexual imagination by means of three familiar fantasy characters — Alice (Alice’s Adventures In Wonderland), Dorothy (The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz) and Wendy (Peter Pan). The result is clearly a work of pornography — one that is spectacularly literate, exquisitely illustrated and without doubt one of the most groundbreaking comic book works of the decade." -- Jonathan P. Kuehlein, Metro Toronto News

"Lost Girls is one of the most important works of pornography of our time and another example of the graphic novel as a powerful literary medium." -- The Geek Zine

"An affecting parable about the importance of fantasy and the consequences of stifling sexual imagination." -- Gwynne Watkins, Nerve

"This erotic reinvention of classic literary characters is a spectacular showcase for Gebbie’s meticulous, fine arts-based style; a lush, dreamy celebration of sexuality." -- Heidi MacDonald, Publishers Weekly (PW Comics Week)

"Lost Girls is a work of art, as beautiful in its execution as it is defiant in its subject matter. Place it next to the Kama Sutra or De Sade’s Philosophy in the Bedroom on your shelf." -- Kurt Amacker, Cinescape

"Moore and Gebbie's Lost Girls qualifies as neither lustful nor licentious but rather as luminous -- potentially the preeminent graphic novel of the first decade of the new millenium." -- Bryan A. Hollerbach, Playback

"The symbolism and subtexts of these books are sensitively explored by Alan Moore and his partner, artist Melinda Gebbie, who redefine the tired pornography formula into an elegant, arousing celebration of the discoveries and pleasures of sex." -- Paul Gravett, Graphic Novels: Stories To Change Your Life

"Lost Girls is about the most thoughtful rumination on sexuality and fantasy as I have ever experienced. … It's an unblinking, unblinkered insight into human nature, and Gebbie's artwork is a match for Moore's script; lovely, frank and poetic. … One of the most important graphic novels yet created." -- Alan David Doane, Comic Book Galaxy

"Lost Girls is Alan Moore's most revolutionary work, designed to smash assumptions, crash barricades. … In this very bold, very human saga, Moore has created a thesis on sexuality that stands with his finest work." -- Nik Dirga, Blog Critics

"Quite a treasure. … Normally, one would advise a reader to stay away from this trilogy if they don’t digest sexually explicit material too well, but in this case, don’t be scared. This well-crafted and beautiful narrative was written for you in the first place." -- Michael Steffen, Slug Mag

"This comic has driven me to complex thought, to patterns and ideas staying fixed in my own mental space that will stay with me. I will quote this book in conversation, I know it. … it has affected me as much as any fiction can. … Melinda Gebbie and Alan Moore's greatest achievement in the comics field." -- Rich Johnston, Lying In The Gutters

"Lost Girls is an extremely ambitious undertaking in just about every way imaginable." -- Brian Heater, New York Press

"Lost Girls arrives as a work of eccentric genius, at times earthbound by its lascivious formula, yet capable of flights of sensual fancy… Moore reveals keen instincts for the ways that pubescent reveries and classic fantasy tales can turn into a dreamy, Freudian blur. " -- Curt Holman, Creative Loafing

"Lost Girls is unapologetically pornographic and undeniably powerful. Graphic novels don't get any more graphic than this." -- Steve Duin, The Oregonian

"Lost Girls is the sublime proof … that you can make stimulatingly graphic sexual acts graphically stimulating and yet retain the mystery and beauty inherent in the emotionally charged context." -- Alistair Fitchett, PLAN B Magazine

"Two giants of comics put the graphic back in graphic novels with Lost Girls" -- Richard von Busack, Metro Active

"The end of innocence as told through pornographic stories about children’s characters. Only Moore." -- Wil Moss, The City Paper

"[Lost Girls] sets a new standard for sequential art in its depth and complexity." -- Jeff Loew, Broken Frontier

"The work voices an impassioned defense of artistic freedom that stresses that fiction and fantasies aren’t the same as actual events and behavior." -- Gordon Flagg, Booklist

"Lost Girls' narrative is equal parts sexual imagination and historical fact, riffing on pornography's artistic antecedents in the works of Aubrey Beardsley, Pierre Louys and Stravinsky's infamous The Rite of Spring, while simultaneously re-imagining beloved children's characters as sexually adventurous women in a world that's turning ugly in a hurry. … One of Lost Girls' chief aims is 'to tell people that they are not alone because of the shameful thoughts that go through their heads.' With abstinence-only education, perpetual war and religious hypocrisy all making a resurgence, it's a valuable lesson." -- Scott Thill, RES Magazine

"Alan Moore is one of the greatest creators of the 20th century and if his work over the past six years hasn’t made him one of the greatest creators of the 21st century then his new graphic novel, Lost Girls, will make that so. … Lost Girls is 400 pages of the some of the best, most exciting and all around hot pornography I’ve ever read. No, it’s not the grunting and heaving of most DVD porno nor the “how many taboos can we put in” sensibility of Penthouse letters but it is a sexually charged and beautiful story of three women (and men and more women) who share their graphic intimate exploits and have many sexual affairs." -- Daniel Robert Epstein, Suicide Girls

"Lost Girls is more than its surface appearance. It's a challenge to readers and to critics. It's eye opening. It's a history lesson of classic erotica. It's tender at moments, heartbreakingly lovely at others, while virtually every reader will find some page that makes them uncomfortable. It's undeniably breathtakingly beautiful. It's Moore and Gebbie's plea for more works like this -- more works that engage the sexual imagination. … Lost Girls is Moore and Gebbie's way of reclaiming pornography, wresting it from the hands of simple smut peddlers and producers who merely crank out tripe to appeal to baser instincts. It has very strong messages about sexuality (obviously), as well as free speech, and even the horror of war. … Lost Girls operates on at least two fronts, first and foremost as a work of art, and secondly, as a flag firmly planted, claiming (or reclaiming) free, artistic expression as the birthright of all creators." -- Matt Brady, Newsarama

"Three very different women meet by chance and discover that they have something in common: each of them experienced … a cataclysmic event that triggered their sexual awakening, and they need to share these experiences with each other, both in telling and experiencing, in order to come to terms with them, in order to heal and move on… The book is also unashamedly pornographic, a Molotov Cocktail thrown into the arena of the cultural debate about Pornography and free speech. … While some people might decry the taboo sexual acts, they ignore the fact that Lost Girls is a dense literary and postmodernist work. Even the most salacious-minded reader would eventually begin to notice that there is, in fact, a story and several themes being explored in the 330-page graphic novel. In fact, the sex may be less interesting than what it is being used to say. … The graphic novel deconstructs and comments on classic children's stories and reconstitutes them as overtly pornographic allegories about adolescent sexual awakening, the power of fantasy, Sex as Power, and Sex as a means of coping with trauma and as a means to heal. It also overtly identifies itself as not reality, but a fantasy, mere words and drawings featuring fantasy characters rather than real people or real acts. And it also acknowledges that part of the appeal of Pornography is as a means for the reader to thrill to fantasies that transgress social taboos like incest without actually committing any such acts in real life. It follows a well-established tradition in European Pornographic Literature dating back several Centuries, including the works of the Marquis de Sade, full of far worse fantasies of rape, domination and outright brutality, to those written under assumed names by gentlemen (and some ladies) for gentlemen. Moore has also cited the use of Pornography as a safety valve and a means to safely explore thoughts and impulses." -- Adi Tantimedh, Comic Book Resources

"As an exercise in the formal bounds of pure comics, Lost Girls is remarkable, as good as anything Moore has done in his career. In addition to being a master-class in comics technique, Lost Girls is also an education in Edwardian Smut – Gebbie and Moore pastiche the pornography of the period, taking in everything from The Oyster to the Venus and Tannhauser period work of Aubrey Beardsley. … It is one of the tropes of pure pornography that events are without consequence. No babies, no STDs, no trauma, no memories best left unexamined. Lost Girls, however, is all about consequences. It's also about more things than sex – war, music, love, lust, repression and time, to pick a handful of subjects (I could pick more). It's the kind of smut that would have no difficulty in demonstrating to an overzealous prosecutor that it has unquestionable artistic validity beyond its simple first amendment right to exist. … Lost Girls is a bitter-sweet, beautiful, exhaustive, problematic, occasionally exhausting work. It succeeded for me wonderfully as a true graphic novel. … That the material is problematic – no more so than many unillustrated novels, but then, it is, most definitely illustrated, and the -graphy part of pornography is what makes this a graphic novel – is obvious. Top Shelf has taken the traditional approach of a respectable publisher when bringing out pornography, and has chosen to package it elegantly, expensively and beautifully, thus pricing it, shaping it, signaling and presenting it to the world, not as pornography, but as erotica. Whatever you call it, there has never been anything quite like this in the world before, and I find myself extraordinarily pleased that someone of Moore's ability actually has written that sort of comics for adults." -- Neil Gaiman
Sure doesn't look like it's just nonsense.

Red
09-04-2006, 02:28 AM
Again with this nonsense.

Oh shut the hell up.

What's wrong Yeller? You need to quote critics to back up your opinions? Need to feel some sense of validation that you're right because critics think it's a good book? Yeah...very very LAME.

Corporeal
09-04-2006, 02:50 AM
Oh shut the hell up.

What's wrong Yeller? You need to quote critics to back up your opinions? Need to feel some sense of validation that you're right because critics think it's a good book? Yeah...very very LAME. Good god you're stupid and unbearably puritanical when it comes to what you think can or cannot be displayed in art, without the ability to back up your opinion with anything else than "lame" or "you're sick". But then again you are the guy that called Nabokov a paedophile so what should I expect?

Old Yeller
09-04-2006, 03:38 AM
Oh shut the hell up.

What's wrong Yeller? You need to quote critics to back up your opinions? Need to feel some sense of validation that you're right because critics think it's a good book? Yeah...very very LAME.:rolleyes:

wertham
09-04-2006, 04:30 AM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/wertham/Alanportrait-1.jpg

"I'm feelin' rather sad because the Rotters don't like me."

Red
09-04-2006, 10:15 AM
:rolleyes:

Heh. Figures.

Incognito
09-04-2006, 10:26 AM
Oh shut the hell up.

What's wrong Yeller? You need to quote critics to back up your opinions? Need to feel some sense of validation that you're right because critics think it's a good book? Yeah...very very LAME.
Maybe he was pointing to the fact that the book is more than "shock A then shock B". Besides, why shouldn't one post other points of view in a thread about a well-received book?

Red
09-04-2006, 10:53 AM
Maybe he was pointing to the fact that the book is more than "shock A then shock B". Besides, why shouldn't one post other points of view in a thread about a well-received book?

If you want to defend a book or film or whatever, fine. But do it with your own words. It's cheap and lazy to just post reviews and say "Hey, other people liked it so that means that it's good and you're wrong for thinking otherwise."

Old Yeller
09-04-2006, 11:06 AM
Heh. Figures.:rolleyes:

Red
09-04-2006, 11:10 AM
:rolleyes:

Yup.

ggfunk
09-04-2006, 12:11 PM
Again with this nonsense.
Why is my opinion nonsensical?

Mr-X 629
09-04-2006, 06:52 PM
**** Alan Moore.
In the context of this thread, Red, this sounds incredibly revealing.

Mr-X 629
09-04-2006, 06:56 PM
As for my own, unwanted, opinion.

The idea behind Lost Girls would normaly put me of from reading it. However, considering that it was written by Mr. Moore, for whom I have much respect for as a writer, I am willing to give it a chance, assuming that I ever get the chance, which is unlikely.

Darth Nevets
09-04-2006, 09:43 PM
I don't know what the hell you're talking about, the art looks great to me. Certainly much better than the Jim Lees and Greg Lands of the current superhero scene.

It's been getting stellar reviews so far. The only negative comments I've seen are from people who don't approve of the subject matter. Here are some excerpts from www.topshelfcomix.com: (http://www.topshelfcomix.com:)

Sure doesn't look like it's just nonsense.
That only shows the weakness apparent in the graphic novel criticism field. There are no established critics or modes of criticism. A good example in film is when Cahiers du Cinema didn't review Lawrence of Arabia, purely because no one there was a fan of Lean. Nearly every quote is an Moore head, who drools over his every thought (which happens in cinema too ie the early reports on Miami Vice). Its simply poorly drawn, to me people, simplistic, and nihilistic. Its critique of fairy tale stories goes no deeper than Shrek, and is an irritable pretensious bore. Its like the people who say Barry Lyndon is Kubrick's best work, please.

Incognito
09-05-2006, 12:50 AM
That only shows the weakness apparent in the graphic novel criticism field. There are no established critics or modes of criticism. A good example in film is when Cahiers du Cinema didn't review Lawrence of Arabia, purely because no one there was a fan of Lean. Nearly every quote is an Moore head, who drools over his every thought (which happens in cinema too ie the early reports on Miami Vice). Its simply poorly drawn, to me people, simplistic, and nihilistic. Its critique of fairy tale stories goes no deeper than Shrek, and is an irritable pretensious bore. Its like the people who say Barry Lyndon is Kubrick's best work, please.
Granted, the comic book critics aren't as well established as movie critics (after all, the comic book industry is miniscule compared to movies), but I can't believe you're saying that they're giving good (and well thought-out, which you would've noticed if you'd read them) reviews just because it's Alan Moore, by far the greatest writer in comics. I admit, the book would get no attention at all if it was written by a no-name, but people know to expect something deeper from Moore. Not to imply that people place hidden meaning where there is none. There are a lot of people who think Watchmen is simplistic, because they only look at the surface.

And Barry Lyndon is great, dammit!

Darth Nevets
09-05-2006, 05:40 AM
Granted, the comic book critics aren't as well established as movie critics (after all, the comic book industry is miniscule compared to movies), but I can't believe you're saying that they're giving good (and well thought-out, which you would've noticed if you'd read them) reviews just because it's Alan Moore, by far the greatest writer in comics. I admit, the book would get no attention at all if it was written by a no-name, but people know to expect something deeper from Moore. Not to imply that people place hidden meaning where there is none. There are a lot of people who think Watchmen is simplistic, because they only look at the surface.
Well Moore is basically saying Fairy tale characters are all surface. But that doesn't mean the plotting or artwork needs to be awful. If it wasn't made by Moore no one would actually be defending this thing, its trite. When I heard about I was overjoyed, but it is a tremendous failure by any standards to me.

And Barry Lyndon is great, dammit!
Kay, now I know not to trust your criticism. Barry Lyndon is an absolute masterpiece and definitely one of Kubrick's best.
The only reason anyone ranks Lyndon so high is because of the year it was released, to improve the 70's image as the greatest decade of American cinema, how much it grossed, nothing, and who directed it. Kubrick is my favorite director, but it isn't in his top five works, and he didn't have that many.

Incognito
09-05-2006, 10:04 AM
The only reason anyone ranks Lyndon so high is because of the year it was released, to improve the 70's image as the greatest decade of American cinema, how much it grossed, nothing, and who directed it. Kubrick is my favorite director, but it isn't in his top five works, and he didn't have that many.
Let me get this straight, everybody who thinks it's one of his best has an agenda to make the 70's look better than they already are? I can't even estimate which year it came out or how much it made and who honestly cares which decade was the best?

Darth Nevets
09-05-2006, 12:35 PM
Let me get this straight, everybody who thinks it's one of his best has an agenda to make the 70's look better than they already are? I can't even estimate which year it came out or how much it made and who honestly cares which decade was the best?
Please, the 70's and its defenders are always trying to co-opt every great filmmaker as their own. Many include Oliver Stone, who obviously did his best later, and Kubrick, who prospered most before the decade by any standard, as products of the 70's. I'm not saying its not the best decade for film, but its certainly not in the top two Kubrick decades. Also feel free to ignore my other points.

wertham
09-05-2006, 01:49 PM
Please, the 70's and its defenders are always trying to co-opt every great filmmaker as their own.Gotta agree with you on that one. The 1970s wasn't (weren't???) all that, or even partially so. Yeah, Coppola did his best work in the 1970s, but not Kubrick. Some say Spielberg was at his best back then, and most agree that the only really good Lucas stuff comes from that epoch. Scorsese? His 70s stuff seems to be wearing a bit thin as of late. Depends.

The 70s was all about really bad Burt Reynolds moron movies and mostly mediocre Eastwood and Streisand flicks... and weepies galore. Undoubtedly, the best porn and cult movies were made in the 1970s, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

What really helps the cause of 1970s as a "golden age" is the fact that so many outstanding projects were in production c.1978-79, but not released until...

1980 :up:

ggfunk
09-05-2006, 03:44 PM
but not released until...

1980 :up:
Including Scorcese's greatest cinematic achievement.

Little Ash
09-05-2006, 05:44 PM
Kubrick is my favorite director, but it isn't in his top five works, and he didn't have that many.
And those would be?

Darth Nevets
09-06-2006, 05:11 AM
And those would be?
Wow we're off track. Okay my top five Kubricks

1. Paths of Glory
2. Dr. Strangelove
3. 2001
4. A CW Orange
5. EWS

Others have the Shining, FMJ, and Spartacus but you see my point.

Little Ash
09-06-2006, 06:03 PM
but you see my point.Not really.
I was just wondering if you were going to place ACW up there, which you sort of did.
A lot of people don't feel it's aged well - tending to like it more when they're younger and not as much when they're older.

The point there is, ask Kubrick fans what their favorite Kubrick's are and you'll get a variety of answers. And some of them do hold Barry Lyndon in high esteem because, well, they actually like it. Not because it didn't gross much upon release or because it was released in the 70s (ACW was released in the 70s as well)... and well, saying they like it because they like Kubrick starts getting a little, though not completely, circular (I like x-director because he makes movies I like. Why do I like the movies he made? - because I like x-director).

Wow we're off track.Yes, but using Barry Lyndon was a bad example when there are actually people who do like it.