[traboule]

Originally Posted by Vivacious J

I heard that's an amazing film, had it once from the library but didn't have time to watch it. I know nothing of the Algerian conflict either. Need to get crackin on some world history!

Are you going to keep this great thread going indefinitely, or end it at a set point? I've always been curious.

Well, when I started the thread there was an end point set. Cleo was a bonus add, but the rest have been from a list generated last fall from RT suggestions. Counting Battle of Algiers, there are six left.

That said, I really have been loving French cinema and have contemplated a Round Two, which may be a new thread or more likely a continuation of this one. There's still so many films to be seen!

[Vivacious J]

Originally Posted by traboule

That said, I really have been loving French cinema and have contemplated a Round Two, which may be a new thread or more likely a continuation of this one. There's still so many films to be seen!

I think you should continue it on here, that way it's all in one place to reference.

[Ritter Red]

I've seen The Battle of Algiers, and it's a really powerful movie. Fortunately, I'd read about the conflict (I have a friend who's a history buff, and he always recommends books to me, including a very in-depth study of the revolution there), and it was helpful because the movie doesn't really explain anything. It begins in medias res, backs up a bit with details but not much exposition. Admittedly, not much is needed. The French were colonials and the Algerians wanted them out. Algeria -- if I recall correctly -- was the first place to use terrorism to achieve its goals, and because they succeeded...well...

[traboule]

Originally Posted by RitterRed

I've seen The Battle of Algiers, and it's a really powerful movie. Fortunately, I'd read about the conflict (I have a friend who's a history buff, and he always recommends books to me, including a very in-depth study of the revolution there), and it was helpful because the movie doesn't really explain anything. It begins in medias res, backs up a bit with details but not much exposition. Admittedly, not much is needed. The French were colonials and the Algerians wanted them out. Algeria -- if I recall correctly -- was the first place to use terrorism to achieve its goals, and because they succeeded...well...

Thanks for the overview - I'm doing a bit of informal reading from sources on the web (which I know better than to take as all-authoritative, but still) and it's a nasty conflict. Every country has a past it wrestles with and it's interesting to see the controversial issues dealt with cinematically. In my reading, I came across the incident that is briefly described in Cache - the Paris massacre of 1961.

As far as The Battle of Algiers, apparently it's been used as an educational piece for both Arabic and Western sides - from the Palestinian Liberation Organization to the Pentagon. Interesting . . .

[traboule]

bump, a la Delicatessen

[Beau]

Okay, my two cents on some of the discussion in this thread.

Traboule, like I said before, your reaction to The Rules of the Game was what I expected, and very much like my own initial response: "As much as I was impressed and entertained by its direction and cinematography, I wasn't engaged as much emotionally."

Thing is, Renoir's idea of characterization is almost criminally subtle - great deals of information are given out in a nearly careless manner; through expressions, or little actions off in the background. I'm actually shocked that there are people out there who love The Rules on the Game on a first watch-through. I find that inconceivable.

As for Marion Cotillard, she's so gorgeous in real life, and so wonderful in La Vie en Rose, that she now graces my avatar. So that's my opinion on her.

And, yes, The Battle of Algiers is amazing; although I'm not sure you will enjoy it. Pontecorvo's film is not about interesting invididuals, but about social patterns and behaviors. It's quite captivating, but not like a regular historical epic.

[traboule]

The Battle of Algiers / La Battaglia di Algeri
(1966, Brahim Hadjadj, Jean Martin, Dir. Gillo Pontecorvo)
Recommended by Stuart Smalley and Ratso



Battle of Algiers Trailer

Before watching the Battle of Algiers, I had just finished the book The Prince of Marshes by Rory Stewart, an account of Stewart's time working for the CPA in the Maysan district of Iraq in 2003. So with Iraq fresh on my mind, it was striking how The Battle of Algiers, with its depiction of urban warfare, terrorism and torture, was made over 40 years ago and is still fresh and timely today.

Looking at the film overall, the filmmakers do not seem to choose a side in the conflict. There are some structural elements that favor the Algerian insurgents, such as more personal details are known of them. We see a wedding with a shy bride; we see strangers hiding the insurgents in their houses; the Algerians' rally for independence is in the last scene. We get to know more individual Algerian characters than we do the French. The only French character we get to know much at all is the lietenant colonel in charge of the counterinsurgency.



And yet, when one of the terrorists places a bomb in a European Quarter cafe, the camera makes sure to linger on people chatting at the tables, a baby licking icecream. We see a strict anti-alcohol policy within the Arabic Quarter result in a crowd of boys attacking an old drunk man.

Similarly, though the French lietenant colonel Mathieu makes some points to the press that have salience, the torture and killing of civilians by the military are certainly not glossed over. In a parallel scene to the one where the boys attack the drunk man, a group of French men try to gang up on an Algerian concession seller who happens to be around when a building near a racetrack is attacked.



The film takes pains to show the bitterness of the conflict - the intelligence and ingenuity of both sides perverted to conducting terrible acts of violence.

The Battle of Algiers cannot be taken as the whole story of the conflict of course, but the story it tells is a provocative one, challenging the viewer to reexamine sympathies and perceptions of this conflict and conflicts like it. I should also mention that the film is not only "good for you" in terms of intellectual stimulation, but it is a suspenseful, superbly choreographed war film.

This is definitely a film to watch in our times.

9/10

[moviemoose4]

So, are you taking any more suggestions? Glad you enjoyed The Battle of Algiers. It's a very intense and well made film.

[traboule]

Originally Posted by moviemoose4

So, are you taking any more suggestions? Glad you enjoyed The Battle of Algiers. It's a very intense and well made film.

I have four left to watch from the initial round of suggestions. I don't know if I'm going to plunge right away into a new bout, and I'm not sure quite yet how I'm going to choose which films to watch next, but suggestions are always welcome.

[Beau]

Well, I'm certainly glad you enjoyed Pontercorvo's film. It's one of my favorites.

[Ritter Red]

The great thing is that he does give both sides their due without bias. It's a complicated story, and though Pontecorvo doesn't fill in all the details, he certainly translates that aspect of it.

Originally Posted by traboule

I have four left to watch from the initial round of suggestions. I don't know if I'm going to plunge right away into a new bout, and I'm not sure quite yet how I'm going to choose which films to watch next, but suggestions are always welcome.

Remind me, which four?

Oh, and as a side note, I watched Two Days in Paris the other night and found it funny when Julie Delpy actually says "Ooh, la la."

[TBeane]

Originally Posted by traboule

As much as I was impressed and entertained by its direction and cinematography, I wasn't engaged as much emotionally by Rules of the Game. Overall though, a great ensemble film.

The film feels greater than the sum of its parts. It's a film about the dynamics between the social elite and their servants. Nothing transcendent about that. But once Renoir establishes the mood at the party midway through, there is much more here. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it is an emotional thing. Maybe it is the pacing that is so brilliant: the combination of the madcap action and unrequited love demonstrated in several instances all going on at the same time onscreen. Then after all the scurrying and commotion, there is Octave, our beloved Octave. I find emotional engagement in the film through him. Left outside the course of the action until at the end of the film, when he is given a chance at love.

[traboule]

Originally Posted by RitterRed

Remind me, which four?

Well, I've already seen Double Life of Veronique and just have to write up the review (hopefully later tonight). The others to see are Children of Paradise, Diabolique, Queen Margot and La Haine.

[traboule]

Originally Posted by RitterRed

The great thing is that he does give both sides their due without bias. It's a complicated story, and though Pontecorvo doesn't fill in all the details, he certainly translates that aspect of it.

He really does. You don't meet many war films like this.

Oh, and as a side note, I watched Two Days in Paris the other night and found it funny when Julie Delpy actually says "Ooh, la la."

Heh. Is that a good movie?

[Vivacious J]

Diabolique is bad ***. You will like it.

[moviemoose4]

Originally Posted by traboule

I have four left to watch from the initial round of suggestions. I don't know if I'm going to plunge right away into a new bout, and I'm not sure quite yet how I'm going to choose which films to watch next, but suggestions are always welcome.

Well, since you're on French film.....I suggest some Claire Denis. Beau Travail and The Intruder to be specific. Amazing stuff.

[traboule]

Originally Posted by Beau

Well, I'm certainly glad you enjoyed Pontercorvo's film. It's one of my favorites.

Does that mean this is a film that we're not in disagreement about?

Originally Posted by TBeane

The film feels greater than the sum of its parts. It's a film about the dynamics between the social elite and their servants. Nothing transcendent about that. But once Renoir establishes the mood at the party midway through, there is much more here. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it is an emotional thing. Maybe it is the pacing that is so brilliant: the combination of the madcap action and unrequited love demonstrated in several instances all going on at the same time onscreen. Then after all the scurrying and commotion, there is Octave, our beloved Octave. I find emotional engagement in the film through him. Left outside the course of the action until at the end of the film, when he is given a chance at love.

I can see how Octave would the emotional center of the film, particularly toward the end, but the connections just wasn't happening for me. Hard to say why.

I did love all the madcap. Maybe the funniest scene in the film: when Schumacher lifts his hand toward Lisette when she'll have none of him and he calls her name "Lisette" and Marceau echoes the movement behind him to call out her name. Marceau was just hilarious.

[traboule]

Originally Posted by moviemoose4

Well, since you're on French film.....I suggest some Claire Denis. Beau Travail and The Intruder to be specific. Amazing stuff.

I've seen Denis' Chocolat (1988) and was rather meh about it at the time. I'll have to take a look at the two you mentioned though.

[traboule]

bump a la Bande a part:

[moviemoose4]

Originally Posted by traboule

I've seen Denis' Chocolat (1988) and was rather meh about it at the time. I'll have to take a look at the two you mentioned though.

Yeah, Chocolat is supposed to be one of her weaker efforts. Let me know how you like those other two.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by traboule

Does that mean this is a film that we're not in disagreement about?

Apparently.

I'm actually surprised you liked it. I was almost convinced you were going to complain about the lack of strong individual characters. Alas, you enjoyed the film's larger, social scope.

[Ritter Red]

Originally Posted by traboule

Heh. Is that a good movie?

I think Delpy has some talent as a writer/director/editor/songwriter/singer, etc.; however, this really shows her limitations. Perhaps she will improve with her next effort and, admittedly, the largest problem with this film was the writing. Too much of the Woody Allen influence and not enough of anything else. You can't watch Adam Goldberg for ten seconds without thinking: Woody Allen; but, that's the way the character's written. I don't know if he could've done anything and not prompted that response. At first, the camerawork seemed a bit too flashy but that settled quickly after the opening credits and was very competent thereafter, as was the editing. She was fearless in allowing herself to be seen in closeups in which her age was evident (in fact, to me, she looks older than she is), but I wish she'd veered from the nepotism and used actors other than her family. In short, a miss, but showing potential.

[dreiser]

:: patiently waits for The Double Life of Veronique review... falls asleep ::

[TBeane]

Originally Posted by dreiser900

:: patiently waits for The Double Life of Veronique review... falls asleep ::

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on this one, Traboule! I bought the Criterion recently and a recent viewing had me breathless.

[dreiser]

Originally Posted by TBeane

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on this one, Traboule! I bought the Criterion recently and a recent viewing had me breathless.

Hands down the best dvd release of 2006. Trois Colours: Rouge is my favorite Kieslowski but in some ways, I like Veronique even more.

[TBeane]

Originally Posted by dreiser900

Hands down the best dvd release of 2006. Trois Colours: Rouge is my favorite Kieslowski but in some ways, I like Veronique even more.

I would go with The Decalogue for its sheer breadth of thematic, moral interest, but Red would be my first answer after that. Of course, Blue and White need to be seen as well to give Red its full weight.

[dreiser]

Originally Posted by TBeane

I would go with The Decalogue for its sheer breadth of thematic, moral interest, but Red would be my first answer after that. Of course, Blue and White need to be seen as well to give Red its full weight.

You may be right about The Decalogue. Episodes one, two, and six are particularly outstanding to me. But I cannot get enough of Irene Jacob in her two films w/ Kieslowski.

[traboule]

The Double Life of Veronique / La Double Vie de Veronique
(1991, Irene Jacob, Dir. Krzysztof Kieslowski)
Recommended by Cunning Linguist, dreiser900, Truth is Good



Trailer

The Double Life of Veronique is the second Kieslowski film I’ve seen, the first being the film Blue. Both films possess gorgeous cinematography, as well as beautiful and talented lead actresses (Irene Jacob for Double Life, Juliette Binoche for Blue). I prefer the Double Life of Veronique over Blue, however, because while Blue was pleasurable, the Double Life of Veronique was arresting.

To touch on those aspects I mentioned before, the Double Life of Veronique is a feast for the eyes. The film plays with colors and perspectives so that it is not only visually compelling, but also offers another layer of meaning in some scenes. Irene Jacob, who plays Veronique and Weronika, is another reason why the film is stunning. Not only is she a very lovely actress, but Jacob’s ability to convey so much in her facial expressions and body language keeps the viewer engaged in the lives of her two characters.



The film is about two women, Weronika in Krakow and Veronique in Paris. The film plays with the idea that they are each other’s double, as the characters intuit the other’s existence. Weronika tries to explain to her father early in the film, “I don’t feel like I’m alone.” A theory is floated later in the film that implies that one double learns from the other’s mistakes just by sensing what not to do. There is some plausibility there, as Weronika’s life is characterized by more risk, but she lets herself live fully in each moment. Veronique’s life is a bit safer, but filled with more longing and melancholy.

The Double Life of Veronique is not interested in explanations however. It prefers to dwell in mystery, and this love of mystery, the unarticulated, the inexplicable is what draws me into the film. And here, I want to quote from one of my favorite books, Lyn Hejinian’s My Life. Hejinian writes, “Still, I felt intuitively that this which was incomprehensible was expectant, increasing, was good.” I have never felt like I had a double or known anyone who has felt that way, so the doppelganger concept, while still quite interesting, did not hold a personal resonance. But I do find pleasure in the mystery of connection to another person.



Continuing the film's thematic exploration of connection, Veronique starts receiving clues in the mail from a man who had performed a beautiful and evocative marionette show at the school where she works as a music teacher. She is drawn into this mysterious connection and so was I as a viewer. There was an erotic appeal to it, created mostly by Jacob's performance as she pleasurably contemplates and attempts to figure out the clues.

But, to be clear, this is not a romantic movie, at least in the sense of being a love story. For the man in question brings another element into the story, a subtle, though unmalicious, threat of simplifying the complex, of wanting to appropriate the delightfully mysterious double life of Veronique.

If you have the time, watch the film with the commentary by Annette Insdorf who offers a lot of insight into the film.

One aspect that I’ve left unmentioned is the incredibly haunting music composed by repeat Kieslowski collaborator, Zbigniew Preisner. Music was also very important in Blue, but here it’s transcendent, particularly in Weronika's part of the film.

All these components combine to create complex layers to be teased out by the viewer long after the film is ended.

9.5/10

[dreiser]

Yes! Excellent insights into one of my favorite movies, traboule.

The wonderful business w/ the Whammo ball is just beautiful to watch. Weronika is such a tactile person, full of mischief and so fetching. The movie had me from the beginning when she continues to sing w/ abandon despite the rain coming down. I thought the clever way that Kieslowski used a swinging camera to show Weronika's passing out on stage from her own POV was brilliant.

I can't help but give it a 10/10 myself. After all, it's in my list of all-time top 20 favorites.

Now I gotta re-read my own review to see if I missed anything you brought up.

BTW --- good point about the academic commentary. I was fearful of some dry discourse and was overcome by the lady's pure love for this film.

[Tom o' Bedlam]

It's the only Kieslowki I've seen so far and I like it, especially the whole "mood" and the subtle surreality of the film, just not as much as you did, but maybe I'll need to rewatch it, it's been some years since I saw it and it was an old VHS tape.

Anyway great and insightful review, made me want to watch this film again.