[Robert the Bruce]

It lacks the magical wonder and flawlessness of FOTR, and it is perhaps missing ROTK's unrivaled scope - but I'll be damned if TTT EE (EE = Faramir character redeemed) isn't the best because of how it really diggs deeper into all of the relationships of the characters, and that brings a wonderful richness to the film. It is in my humble opinion the most tightly paced of the three, with the best fight scenes (Helm's Deep, specifically Gandalf/Eomer's charge), best music (Rohan theme and Evenstar), and best scene in the trilogy with Aragorn's tomb and Arwen's lament.

FOTR Thread: http://vine.rottentomatoes.com/vine/....php?t=2282508

ROTK thread sometime next week. I'm starting to get really hyped for The Hobbit, against my better judgment. I think the lack of success for The Lovely Bones works in our favor - as it might light the fire under Jackson that he had when he was working on LOTR and wanting to prove the doubters (virtually everyone) wrong. Him being a Tolkein fanatic and not a studio flunky also gives hope.

[Penarin]

Nice. I've just been watching the extended version of The Two Towers over the past few days.

I love Fellowship, and have seen it many, many times. But for some reason I haven't watched the other two movies all that much. So I'm trying to fix that at the moment.

[Penarin]

Frodo: I can't do this, Sam.

Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.

Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?

Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

[Robert Gall]

The first half of TTT is, for me, the weakest part of the entire trilogy simply because it follows on from the climatic ending of FOTR and is then preceded by Helm's Deep. I'm not saying it's bad (because it sets up the rest of the film/trilogy nicely) but it just feels very slow in introducing Rohan and then Treebeard. Once Gandalf releases Theoden from under Saruman's spell then it really picks up!

Still..

FOTR: 10/10
TTT: 9.5/10
ROTK: 10/10

[The Plan]

I love Fellowship, but holy crap does TT's slow burn nearly rival it. The build up to Helm's Deep and then Helm's Deep itself is fantastic. The first time I saw the movie in theaters, I was right there in the cave with the women and children, scared out of my shorts by the gigantic army outside the fortress walls. I don't think I've ever been terrified like that by a film.

[Sammael]

All three films are great but The Two Towers is easily the weakest of the three.

[Robert the Bruce]

Originally Posted by Forgot The Plan

I love Fellowship, but holy crap does TT's slow burn nearly rival it. The build up to Helm's Deep and then Helm's Deep itself is fantastic. The first time I saw the movie in theaters, I was right there in the cave with the women and children, scared out of my shorts by the gigantic army outside the fortress walls. I don't think I've ever been terrified like that by a film.

Agreed, I remember my arms actually shaking during. I've never had an experience like it. The movie actually reminds me of Zulu in the build-up. Masterfully done all around.

Sammael - Around 2003 I would have been inclined to agree with you, but the TTT EE has grown on me more than maybe any film. The pace is fantastic and every non-Helms Deep scene is very subtle and understated.

[BobHarris]

The Battle at Helms Deep is some of the best filmmaking i've seen.

[Atomic Cow]

I already decisively proved Fellowship is not flawless. You can't keep pushing that it is flawless now that you know it isn't. Having said that Two Towers is my favorite of the three and think Return of the King is decisively the least of the three. I was right when it was not popular to think Empire Strikes Back was the best of that trilogy. And I am right on Two Towers.

[Stryder]

I went back and saw bits and pieces of all three.. and the strongest entry of the three is the Two Towers.. because it's the crutch the first and third movie use to carry the weight of the story...and everything is solidified.

1. Two Towers
2. ROTK
3. Fellowship..

[Noface]

For me, the material with Faramir is arguably the biggest mis-step in the series. Total blight on that character.

The writers (Phillipa Boynes in particular) argue that it was necessary for the story's integrity. In fact, I think it lead to one of the most nonsensical moments in the film... the scene where Frodo waves the ring under the witch-king's nose... and somehow this leads to Faramir having a complete change of heart.

Yrrrch.

The Helm's Deep material is almost flawless, however... and the Arwen sequence is a fantastic, moving re-imagining of a character who's really tangential in the books.

[Johnny Five]

Originally Posted by Noface

For me, the material with Faramir is arguably the biggest mis-step in the series. Total blight on that character.

The writers (Phillipa Boynes in particular) argue that it was necessary for the story's integrity. In fact, I think it lead to one of the most nonsensical moments in the film... the scene where Frodo waves the ring under the witch-king's nose... and somehow this leads to Faramir having a complete change of heart.

Yrrrch.

The Helm's Deep material is almost flawless, however... and the Arwen sequence is a fantastic, moving re-imagining of a character who's really tangential in the books.

Did you do that on purpose?

"Yrch" is Sindrarin Elvish for "orcs".

[Captain Dills]

Woh. Watched this last night. The second CD of the extends edition edition is the best CD of the trilogy. Know what I'm sayin?

[Ovenball]

I think The Two Towers Extended Edition is not as good as Fellowship, but I must concede that if I was going to sit down and watch me some LOTR it would be The Two Towers.

[Thief12]

Originally Posted by Sammael

All three films are great but The Two Towers is easily the weakest of the three.

This...

But still...

FOTR = A+
TTT = A-
ROTK = A

[TeamCanada]

I concur. TTT is by far the richest of the 3, with the best (& most required) acting performances. I think it only stumbles with pacing.

FOTR A+
TTT A-
ROTK A

I'm trying to remember how it played during the marathon, I think it felt swifter & more energized- feeling more like a bridge that it is.

[manofaiki]

Originally Posted by Penarin

Frodo: I can't do this, Sam.

Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.

Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?

Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

I love the way one of the co-writers describes trying to finish this scene in the special features. She and her co-writer got to "What are we holding onto, Sam?" and................got stuck.

What ARE they holding to? Hmmmmm.

So then she said to the other writer, something like "Well you're gonna hate this, it'll sound corny, so this is going to be VERY dependent on the actor saying it right and selling it......'That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for.'"

And Sean Astin pulled it off BEAUTIFULLY. I still think he should have been nominated for a BSA Oscar for TTT and especially for RTK.

[Noface]

Originally Posted by Johnny Five

Did you do that on purpose?

"Yrch" is Sindrarin Elvish for "orcs".

Yup. It's been my favorite written expletive for a long time...

[Johnny Five]

Originally Posted by manofaiki

And Sean Astin pulled it off BEAUTIFULLY. I still think he should have been nominated for a BSA Oscar for TTT and especially for RTK.

I specifically mentioned that scene when I met him in the summer of '03 at GenCon. He did indeed nail it. He's also (seemingly) an incredibly nice guy.

[Jackal P.I.]

The 2 towers is the best of the three. Return is slightly better than Fellowship, for what it's worth.

[Conehead2187]

From Best to Worst (I use the term loosely):
Second Half of FotR
Second Half of TTT
First Half of RotK
First Half of FotR
First Half of TTT
Second Half of RotK

[Smalley]

Originally Posted by Atomic Cow

I already decisively proved Fellowship is not flawless. You can't keep pushing that it is flawless now that you know it isn't. Having said that Two Towers is my favorite of the three and think Return of the King is decisively the least of the three. I was right when it was not popular to think Empire Strikes Back was the best of that trilogy. And I am right on Two Towers.

Stop it.

[Adam]

I think TTT clearly gains the most from its EE of any film of the trilogy.

[The Imp Speaks]

Originally Posted by Jackal P.I.

The 2 towers is the best of the three. Return is slightly better than Fellowship, for what it's worth.

This, but I love all three movies with a passion. The only issue I have with the entire trilogy is that I wish Jackson would have done something wirh the battles in the Shire and Hobbiton, but that would have required a fourth movie, so I get why he left it out.

Also I would have liked to have seen Tom Bombadil, but I completely get why he wasnt in the movies as well.

[Hipster Thor]

Two Towers is considered the weakest in the trilogy because, being the middle act, it has no clear beginning or end, and on it's own it stumbles. It ties into the whole, "think of the trilogy more as one film", because it works much better that way. I will say that I find Two Towers the lightest of the 3 films, and while not the best, probably the most fun, and the easiest to pop in and watch. Fellowship, and especially RTOK require a lot of investment.

I also think some of y favorite scenes are fro TTT. There's this ONE shot, where Theoden's men are riding to meet the Wargs in combat, and Eowyn turns to Aragorn as he's riding off, and as all the horses are rushing around him, Aragorn pauses to look back before riding off again. My favorite shot in the whole trilogy.

[Robert the Bruce]

My favorite shot is after Aragorn's fall and near death. Seriously injured, he first witnesses the massive Uruk Hai army - then he rides to Helm's Deep and the camera does a panoramic 360 capture of the ride. It is incredibly shot and Howard Shore's music is likewise incredible.

I have that scene on now and this is goddamn sublime. Good lord these movies are good.

[Penarin]

Originally Posted by manofaiki

I love the way one of the co-writers describes trying to finish this scene in the special features. She and her co-writer got to "What are we holding onto, Sam?" and................got stuck.

What ARE they holding to? Hmmmmm.

So then she said to the other writer, something like "Well you're gonna hate this, it'll sound corny, so this is going to be VERY dependent on the actor saying it right and selling it......'That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for.'"

And Sean Astin pulled it off BEAUTIFULLY. I still think he should have been nominated for a BSA Oscar for TTT and especially for RTK.

Nice. I didn't know that.

[Robert the Bruce]

[manofaiki]

Originally Posted by montferrat

My favorite shot is after Aragorn's fall and near death. Seriously injured, he first witnesses the massive Uruk Hai army - then he rides to Helm's Deep and the camera does a panoramic 360 capture of the ride. It is incredibly shot and Howard Shore's music is likewise incredible.

I have that scene on now and this is goddamn sublime. Good lord these movies are good.

Peter Jackson showed with these films he understands EPIC. Setting up a scene, shooting it, then what he wants from the music score for each particular scene.

Loved the behind the scenes features on how the score was done, where they show Shore and the musicians watching the scene, trying to FEEL it and then changing up the music and trying different things until they 'found' the right sound.

[TeamCanada]

Originally Posted by manofaiki

Peter Jackson showed with these films he understands EPIC. Setting up a scene, shooting it, then what he wants from the music score for each particular scene.

Loved the behind the scenes features on how the score was done, where they show Shore and the musicians watching the scene, trying to FEEL it and then changing up the music and trying different things until they 'found' the right sound.

I think the absolute magic of PJ's LOTR direction is that it NEVER ever feels rushed. There are many many movies & epics that are superb but even they show scenes & sequences where it feels tacked on or rushed.

LOTR is like fine wine & if you don't enjoy it, more for the rest of us. The only downside is I can't just up & pop it in the player for a casual viewing- they still to this day feel like event viewings aka I need to prep my mind & make sure I have no plans ahead of time.


btw, those shots posted above /\ will be what seperates LOTR from The Hobbit imo- Hobbit looks like a pure road film without nearly the heavy stuff we were involved with LOTR.