[Wooley]

Originally Posted by Janson Jinnistan

I think it might be official that Killing Them Softly is this year's Drive.

Gasp!

Drive is approximately 7x better than KTS, in my opinion. Maybe 10x.

[Janson Jinnistan]

Originally Posted by Wooley

Gasp!

Drive is approximately 7x better than KTS, in my opinion. Maybe 10x.

Maybe. I need more time to settle that one. But I meant in relation to audience reaction to a film that's more sophisticated than they were expecting.

I know a lot of the film's critics don't acknowledge the "sophistication" as such, but, interestingly, Drive's detractors also claimed its fans were fooled into imagining substance that wasn't really there.

[Captain Dills]

Gandolfini's character was the only thing about the movie I didn't like. I understand what he stands for and why he's there, but his scenes almost bring it to a complete halt.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Janson Jinnistan

I think it might be official that Killing Them Softly is this year's Drive.

I loved it, by the way.

Drive is a much better film.

In terms of controversial love/hate I think other films will have this beat, too.

[Narrator]

I loved it. Although with the comparisons to Drive, I will say Drive is better overall, as that happens to be one of my top five films of the decade.

It beats you over the head with it's message at times, but I wasn't too bothered by that as I was too focused on the performances, Dominik's craftsmanship and the unrelenting, nerve-wracking sense of dread which pulled me into the film from the moment when it started to when the credits hit.

[Wooley]

Originally Posted by Janson Jinnistan

Maybe. I need more time to settle that one. But I meant in relation to audience reaction to a film that's more sophisticated than they were expecting.

I know a lot of the film's critics don't acknowledge the "sophistication" as such, but, interestingly, Drive's detractors also claimed its fans were fooled into imagining substance that wasn't really there.

You make an interesting point.

I don't think Drive was all that "sophisticated" from any point of view other than the way it is put together. But it was extraordinarily well put together. It was as good as many of the 70s films it emulates. And that's an achievement.

But I didn't expect it to be sophisticated, and that was, to me, the sum total of its sophistication. Otherwise, it just packed a helluva punch.

Conversely, I think I expected KTS to be much more sophisticated than it actually was. I thought it was just... there. It tried to take its time and have long, patient dialogue scenes and thoughtful moments, and some of them worked. But it was... illusory, in my opinion. It didn't achieve what it set out to achieve. It was clear that it was trying to be something, actually a couple of things, but unlike Drive, it did not reach them. And it dicked around trying to be meaningul too much and just kinda lost its way.
In my opinion.

[Wooley]

Originally Posted by Captain Dills

Gandolfini's character was the only thing about the movie I didn't like. I understand what he stands for and why he's there, but his scenes almost bring it to a complete halt.

This is interesting to me, in light of the above poster's comparison to Drive, your avatar, and my feelings about those scenes.

I thought Gandolfini's scenes were the best in the movie, and gave it it's biggest boost and flagged when his character was just as quickly dismissed.

[Uncle Luke]

I just got out of it. I liked it a lot more than I thought. I will agree the beating over the head with the political stuff was way over done and really drew attention to itself. I have no idea why the guy chose to have it in so many scenes. It's like "Ok, we get it, dude..."

In reading so much about this before seeing it, I was prepared for that and I think it actually helped. There was a cool rhythm to this movie. In a lot of ways, it felt like a play adapted to the screen, that actually worked. 90% of the movie was just people talking in bars. But I liked the dialogue, I liked the way it was shot, and I liked how it flowed. Im not the biggest Brad Pitt fan either, but he was good enough in this, and for the most part it was an ensemble movie anyway. (Anyone notice this is the first time he & Gandolfini have been on screen together since True Romance? "EXACTLY roommates.")

I honestly don't know why it got such a harsh fan reaction. On the Fandango app of my Iphone, it actually says "Don't Go" in the audience reaction slot. I've never seen that before, no matter how terrible the movie.

I really think this is one of those "judge for yourself" type of movies; hard to gauge if you'll dig it from the audience reaction. Because just like when people go see something like Punch Drunk Love with Adam Sandler in it, they'll all say "it's terrible" because they had no idea what kind of flick they were walking into.

[Narrator]

Originally Posted by Uncle Luke

I really think this is one of those "judge for yourself" type of movies; hard to gauge if you'll dig it from the audience reaction. Because just like when people go see something like Punch Drunk Love with Adam Sandler in it, they'll all say "it's terrible" because they had no idea what kind of flick they were walking into.

My theater was located in a college town, and the reactions after were pretty mixed. I'm pretty sure a couple walked out after the BRUTAL beating, and a lot of the audience seemed pretty uncomfortable throughout, especially during Gandolfini's drunken rants (which I actually found rather humorous) and the displays of suffering and begging among Jackie's victims. I heard about the F cinemascore before I saw it, not surprised most people did not know what they were getting into.

[Uncle Luke]

Originally Posted by Narrator

a lot of the audience seemed pretty uncomfortable throughout, especially during Gandolfini's drunken rants (which I actually found rather humorous)

I could kind of barely follow the story he was telling, but god how good was Gandolfini! This was one of those odd movies were it was somehow just entertaining listening to people talk. I could have watched him go on for hours, there was just something about the tone and the atmosphere of the whole film that lent itself to "crook talk." Not a whole lot was happening, but everyone was just so in their element, it managed to make everything work.

I loved the scene where the guy kept spacing out while he was on heroin. At first I was like "Alright, this is kind of hacky..." But then it almost got into a "Rule of 3's" thing that they did it so much it got really funny, they kept repeating that one stupid sequence over and over. Theater only had a handful of people in it, but everyone was laughing pretty hard at that.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by Feuer und Eis

No. It's as good as Eddie Coyle. The film is heavy on dialogue and monologues. Similar to a Lumet film.

That's a positive.

[DreCosby]

Originally Posted by Gotham-iz-Ashez

That's a stupid statement considering I like movies like Ides of March.

So after using the phrase "liberal agenda" you reveal that you liked a film that was critical of a Democrat? Shocking.

[billwh2]

Originally Posted by Errol Flynn

It's pretty awful but Heather Graham is hot in it.

That was on the FLIXe cable channel last night! I watched part of it before I fell asleep! And as you say, Heather Graham IS hot in it.

"Killing Me Softly" (2002)

0% on the tomatometer (but Heather Graham is hot!)

[Toag Redloh]

I liked it. The lack of subtlety isn't what bothered me; it was the fact that the politics were present in almost every scene. At times, it just got in the way.

Select the black box below with your cursor to view the spoiler text

I've seen mixed reactions to the final conversation. I loved it except when they would acknowledge what Obama was saying on the tv screen. We're supposed to believe these two guys involved in organized crime having a heated discussion about how much one of them is owed are keeping one ear fixed on the president's victory speech? Give me a break.

I thought that scene represented exactly what I liked and didn't like about the entire movie.

[Brundlefly]

Yea, I feel like if they would've done away with half of the political stuff it could have been a masterpiece.

I loved it though, not at all what I was expecting....a real slow burner, great dialogue and great performances all around. Dominick is great at pacing.

[Steveland. Danger.]

I should not have watched this movie after work because I couldn't focus and kept zoning out. I think something's there, so I'll watch it again once it hits DVD. My initial reaction is that it didn't achieve what it set out to achieve, but I'm open to being wrong about that.

[Feuer und Eis]

I'm surprised Dominik hasn't had a film rated above 80 percent on this site, and KTS is his biggest critical and box office success. Audiences aren't too fond of him either. I have never felt more disconnected from the populace opinion on a director.

[Janson Jinnistan]

Originally Posted by Feuer und Eis

I have never felt more disconnected from the populace opinion on a director.

Even Malick didn't get an F cinemascore.

[Russian Army Knife]

I kind of loved it. I really enjoy Dominik's directing style. As with Assassination of Jesse James, I assume it's only slow the first time and very rewatchable. Every scene is directed in a way where it's as much about what the characters are feeling than the story being told.

I didn't even mind the political commentary to be honest. It's sets the setting more than anything. Why do people in America have such a phobia of politics in their movies? In Europe people seem more tolerant of it, a director's an individual, you know he's going to have a point of view, don't feel so threatened by it.

But the sound design is one area where the "puts you in the skin of the characters" thing went too far and got old after a while. I realize they wanted to make it more intimate, but I really don't need to hear in great detail every time Scott McNairy and James Gandolfini smacked their lips, gulped, and rubbed their face. Was I the only one bothered by this? Maybe it was the sound in my theater.