[streetcar_desire]

Thanks to Bob Brooker and his reply to the "Laura" thread, my prior entry here, I realized how useful to the understanding of MD a thread about "Angel Heart" would be. So let's start one.

Here are some of my notices: – spoiler –

AH: - Harry Angel said, after his downfall became obvious, and after it was clear, he was the one who lost his memory: "I know who I am!"
MD: - Rita said after her accident: "I don't know who I am!" (If we realize, Rita and Betty are two parts of the same person – I think that was discussed here on the forum very broadly – then it makes sense. Diane does not know anything about the awful truth in her dream.)

AH: - The fan plays an important role in "Angel Heart" as a visual hint, something evil has been done (of which the committing person was not aware at the moment it happend).
MD: - In Twin Peaks we have the fan on the ceiling that turned on when Leland Palmer switched to Bob. We also see a fan reference in MD during Diane's masturbation scene.

AH: - Louis Cypher played tricks on Harry Angel provoking him to turn to evil again – and catch his soul then. Near the end of the Film he unveils the truth to Harry Angel (but in fact he helped him a little bit, after it became obvious to himself what really happend – and that he was a murder.)
MD: – The magician on the club silencio stage says: "it is all an illusion!" The "little jaunt" to hell – club silencio – reveals the truth, but in a way it adds only some clues to something Betty became more and more aware during her dream.

AH: - Johnny Favourite (Harry Angels alter ego) made a deal with the devil to become a famous "tear jerker" singer (IMO it is quite ironically meant, he had no bigger ambitions. Btw, he was always pointed out as of a German origin, his real name was "Liebling", which is the translation of "Favourite" – the one who's being liked by everyone – like Betty). This is a classical "Faust" Theme, and like this after a while Johnny wanted to get rid of the contract and the devil. Due to his low ambitions and his sort of bad taste (that sees s a reference in the shabby world of Harry Angel) he found nothing smarter than killing a young man and tearing out his heart (as to play a trick on the devil). He didn't realize, after he commited murder, his soul belonged more to lucifer than ever. (Actually it is quite common in stories like fairy tales to outsmart the devil after he did a certain favour; must search for example the Grimm brothers tales. Even in the "Faust" I think, Faust didn't need to fulfil his side of the contract.) We find elements of a classic tragedy at this point, because Johnny thought being so smart, and did even worse.
MD: - There are lots of "lightweight" culture elements in the audition scenes; Carol performing "16 Reasons" and Camilla "I've told every little star" – remember Linney James said: "A project you would kill for." On the other hand the Ed Scene in the low rent office is somewhat like Angels office in NY (like "Laura": NY and LA twisted …maybe … just kidding :-)). The silencio scene could be a clue to Dianes fail in becoming famous by doing something evil – that puts her right away to hell; and even more after she commited suicide. (I think in one way Diane killed Camilla – maybe there was no hitman either – rather to get the starring role of TSNS, not due to their love relationship, but that is something to discuss in a seperate thread maybe.)
In one of the last scenes of Angel Heart, Harry Angel murdered a young mulatto women, who was the daughter of Johnny Favourite, after he slept with her: the crime of incest combined with murder – it was in fact his own daughter – let him have no choice anymore … he had to burn in hell.

Okay, I think this was a lot of text; now it's truly yours.

[Bob Brooker]

Good thoughts on this.

Here's more related stuff I noticed ...

SIMILAR THEMES
identity confusion, denial/repression, guilt-ridden dreams, premonitions, destructive obsession (stardom)


SIMILARITIES ALONG THE STORY-LINE:
Angel Heart is about making contracts with the devil. Applying this idea to MD means to switch from a "rational" to a metaphysical explanation of the occurrences. On our website there's a bunch of theories dedicated to this topic to be found at www.mulholland-drive.net/studies/theories.htm (in section "Metaphysical")
Here are three possible interpretations circling around a contract between Diane and the Devil:

Take 1) Core to this scenario lies with declining that the first part in MD is to be taken as a dream. It rather portrays alter reality: Diane had Camilla killed and upon realization she sells her soul to the Devil in exchange for having her innocent past (and Camilla) back - just for once. So the devil sends her back as Betty exactly at the time Camilla is being killed on Mulholland Dr. But this time the devil makes the hit goes awry and Camilla loose her memory so as to allow her to care-free reunite with Diane (as Betty). The love story culminates at Club Silencio where the devil shows up to claim his part of the contract - Diane's soul. Hence the Betty and Rita world collapses and Diane's soul descents to hell.

In an alternate version of this scenario, Club Silencio is not set as the last scene in chronological order but is followed by a final portion of reality. Diane's dream world ends with her disappearance at Havenhurst bedroom and she is subsequently brought back to her own bedroom at Sierra Bonita where the cowboy (member of the devil mob) wakes her up. Later that day the Erinyes (old couple) come for Diane's soul, driving her to suicide.

Clues supporting this theory:

- The old couple are guiding demons sent by the devil. Their eerie, malicious laughing in the limo, after they dropped off Diane in the Betty world, clues us into their evil nature. They know what's gonna happen to Betty when time's up.

- Club Silencio is the final destination for all the people contracting with the devil. The Magician with his goatee and the fork (cane) makes Betty realize that this was just an illusion (ordered herself) and gives his victim a glimpse of hell (convulsion) before the world eventually falls apart at Havenhurst or - as you will - at Sierra Bonita.


- The Hell sign as pointed out.


- Numerology: the 666 sequence outside Winkie's (Ouside Diner Signs (mark of the devil)

- Money in both worlds signifies the deal.

- The smoke and blue flashes in Diane's bedroom after she killed herself makes a strong connection to hell and the devil. After all the Magician vanished in a similar cloud of smoke and blue flashes at Silencio. The unrealistic heavy smoke after the car crash on Mulholland Dr. indicates the entrance into the alter reality where Camilla actually survived the hit.

silencio___________________bedroom________________ _crash scene


- Dan mentioning the man behind the wall that's doing it all. Doesn't the bum has a devilish appearance? He is the one unleashing the old couple, the demons that come for collecting Diane's soul. Also, after Diane's killed herself the bum's face is superimposed on Club Silencio curtains . He is the power behind it all.



Take 2) Diane contracts with the Devil, not for having Camilla back, but for having her killed. Joe is just the impersonation of the devil when he settles the deal at Winkie's. After Camilla is offed Diane is allowed a final wish dream of an idealized world with Camilla. The devil makes an appearance in her dream as the Magician reminding Diane of what's to come.
Truly, Diane loses her innocence, when she pays Joe the Hitman to kill (or whatever) Camilla. If you look at it in a religious way, that could mean she sold her soul to the devil, doing an evil thing.


Take 3) This one comes pretty close to what's being told in Angel Heart. Diane sold her soul for Hollywood stardom. Somehow she failed and tries to slip consequences by delving into alter realities. But she can't play tricks on the devil. After a final a stream of consciousness he comes to collect her soul pushing her to suicide.


There are plot holes in all these scenarios, alright, but they present possible interpretation nonetheless, since Lynch wasn't quite specific in explaining his own vision.


VISUAL CONNECTIONS:

- Angel is a private eye just as is Ed. As already mentioned their similar looking offices up to the drawers...



- Requested headshots are handed over in a dinner/pub.


- Discarded shoes and a black purse next to a bed.


- Red lampshades


- At one point Johnny Favourite is envisioning an electrical chair presenting the final punishment for his deeds. At Silencio the magician is making Betty trembling in her chair.


- As pointed out by the original poster the recurring images of fans in AH might be referred to in Diane's masturbation scene

[streetcar_desire]

In addition to MD this is up to "Lost Highway". In the last scenes, Fred Madison ist persued and almost caught by the police, he starts shaking violently and smoke comes up. Could this be the end, also on the electric chair (see vision of electric chair above in AH)?





Ouote from LH:

JUDGE
Fred Madison, the jury having found you
guilty of murder in the first degree, it
is my order that on a date to be
determined, you be put to death in the
electric chair.

reason for editing: 50 pixels…

[Bob Brooker]

speaking of Lost Highway connections...

I thought those pairs of detectives pretty much look alike:

[streetcar_desire]

So let us continue the investigation on this…

Did you notice, when Harry Angel starts his enquiry on Johnny Favourite, things turn out almost the same, when Betty and Rita begin their search for D. Selwyn? Angel looks up Dr. Fowlers name and decides, after he was found absent, to visit his address. Then Harry Angel brakes into the basement of the apartment through the window. Before it, he called from a payphone at "Yankees diner". Interestingly many known elements from MD are showing up here, although not always in the same sequence or for the same purpose (like the payphone). Even the corpse of the apartment's resident is found at last (though he was prior seen alive).

In AH Harry Angel is introduced as some sort of grubby, but nice and somewhat charming guy. Betty in MD starts the same – you're not up to realize truly dark elements on both, until the story gets to a certain point. Both are persuing their alter egos; Betty (and Rita as well) and Harry Angel are not yet aware of their true identity.

Here are some pictures of "Angel Heart", I believe I saw somewhere else…



Harry Angel using payphone at "Yankee's"









Betty's breaking into App #17 window, Harry Angel into basement window


Searching for phone numbers


reason for editing: picture resize

[Bob Brooker]

good calls. I noticed the ashtray and the diner too. with the latter I want to say hello to somebody...

[streetcar_desire]

Look at these pairs of pictures. It's a little detour, but only to complete the circle in the end. I assume that underlines the MD connection to the devil's theme. These shots are from "The Devil's Advocate", a movie that is supposedly on the other hand quite connected with themes of "Angel Heart".

Keanu Reeves enters the devil's penthouse-office; club silencio


Al Pacino as the devil: "I only set the stage"; the "magician" at club silencio


reason for editing: picture resize

[streetcar_desire]

I always thought Coco was very strange at the dinner party, with all these demonic people around… Maybe the walnuts she's been eating, have the same sombolic meaning the egg has in "Angel Heart". The egg was mentioned by Louis Cyphre as a symbol for the soul; eating walnuts is like eating little brains, isn't it?





reason for editing: picture resize

[Bob Brooker]

>>eating walnuts is like eating little brains

boy, that's a good one indeed

[deli man]

here are some things i noticed:

1. you have too much time on your hands.

2. all these insane theories give david lynch fans a bad name

3. you are READING TOO FAR INTO THIS MOVIE

4. david lynch concieved the plot to this movie while meditating and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANGEL HEART

5. 99.99999% of all theories about mulholland drive are completely idiotic and false, as is this one.

6. mulholland drive is my favorite film of all time, but when i take a look at the other people who love it as much as i do, i question my sanity
and feel depressed


i used to try and figure out the meaning of this film, then i realized figuring out this movie is indeed impossible. so sit back, enjoy the film, and for christ's sake, STOP WITH THE THEORIZING ALREADY

[streetcar_desire]

Thanks a lot. You're supposed to be a true master of enlightenment, aren't you? I owe you lots of respect for this and by the way also for bumping up this thread.

[deli man]

yes, you should thank me, since the person who usually replies to your threads is...you! i read your theory about the palm frond, excuse me, "witch broom," and i laughed even harder than when i read this thread about angel heart. people aren't always going to agree with everything you say, better get used to it pal. and no need to thank me for the enlightening, that's free.

[blu]

Jeez, where's Jro when you need him?

(That's one for the old-timers.)

Keep it up Streetcar.

[wibble]

Originally Posted by streetcar_desire

I always thought Coco was very strange at the dinner party, with all these demonic people around… Maybe the walnuts she's been eating, have the same sombolic meaning the egg has in "Angel Heart". The egg was mentioned by Louis Cyphre as a symbol for the soul; eating walnuts is like eating little brains, isn't it?

Hi,
interesting comparison but I think that as far as symbolism goes the two films treat it quite differently. I found this article about the symbolism of walnuts in dreams:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/200...trum/dream.htm

I think that some of these definitely apply and could provide quite a bit of food for thought (sorry)!

w.

[wibble]

Originally Posted by streetcar_desire

I always thought Coco was very strange at the dinner party, with all these demonic people around… Maybe the walnuts she's been eating, have the same sombolic meaning the egg has in "Angel Heart". The egg was mentioned by Louis Cyphre as a symbol for the soul; eating walnuts is like eating little brains, isn't it?

Hi again,
just realised my previous post referred to dream imagery when the scene with the walnuts occurs in, we suppose, reality.

So how about this one from:
http://www.templeisrael.org/holidays...evat/index.php

" According to the Kabbalists there are four worlds or levels of creation: Azilut (emanation), Beriah (creation), Yetzirah (formation) and Assiyah (action -our world of physical reality)."

"4. The world of Assiyah has an outside shell that must be discarded, and fruit on the inside that can be eaten. Its 10 fruits and nuts are pomegranates, walnuts, almonds, pine nuts, chestnuts, hazelnuts, coconuts, Brazil nuts, pistachios, and pecans. The symbolism, in brief, is as follows: those parts that can be eaten represent holiness; the inedible parts — that is, the pits — represents the impure; and the shells serve as protection for the fragile holiness inside."

Not sure if it applies - holiness??

Or there's this from:
http://www.greatdreams.com/sacred/17-muhammad.htm

"In Jewish tradition, the walnut is notorious for its "Klipah", its shells. Before we can get at the kernel we must strip away layer upon layer of defenses. The walnut symbolically is almost an analogy of the world. It has four different layers of Protection:

(1) Dishonesty and self-deception,
(2) closemindedness and blind prejudice,
(3) unwillingness and inertia,
(4) the fog and clouds of habit and history.

All of them have to go before we move forward. As we strive to change, the masks and armor fall away and we reach a clear perception of ourselves. The walnut is a paradigm of suppression, representing all the manifold efforts of dishonesty to prevent us seeing ourselves as we really are. The walnut is bound up with the prime number 17 which is also the value of the Hebrew word for SIN. It describes an arrow shot wide of the mark, and represents the natural world severed from all its spiritual connections...The Kernel is reminiscent of the brain, with its convolutions and striations. But whereas our brains have two lobes the walnut has four lobes. The universe, according to the Kabbalists has four "lobes". "

This may be alot to read into one minor detail in one scene but there are other things in the film that could bear some scrutiny from a symbolic or numerologic point of view - one that springs to mind is the 16 on the door of Adam's room at Cookie's downtown. Wonder what the numerology of that is??





w.