[Boss Fan]

That's pretty much it.



Am I the only who finds his films truly hard to stomach, completely vapid, derived of all honesty and built solely on clichés and the (oh so original) idea that loud-mouth, older black women are really funny? Why the community he so obviously condescends to embraces him so and fails to see he is simply exploiting stereotypes for personal gain I will never understand.



And that is seriously more thought than I have ever put into the guy. Basically I just think his movies are tired, cringe-inducingly unfunny and obnoxious.



Like one of the Tomatometer critic’s quipped, "as long as there are people who find Spike Lee films to challenging," I guess we will have to live with Tyler Perry's of cinema. But I guess if I was a crappy film maker and could make cheap, easy movies that make $50+ million a pop, I would keep churning them out too.

[ebonflux]

Well, with most of the movies that are out there now, this should fit right in. For anyone checking, I love his movies. Maedia(sp?) is a funny lady and while worldly, she is a wholesome person at heart. And, can I say that the guys in the movie have be down right handsome? And they are some goodguys too. You don't see guys like them in today's world. And the story is funny as well. I love the Tyler Perry movies. One last thing, his plays. They are so funny. I laugh so hard that I can hardly breathe. And they are so goodearted. I love them!

[qurary88]

I completely agree,but don't worry, tyler perry movies are nothing more than a passing fad. Once people figure out that the man has nothing to say(as do the critics)then this guy will probably float by the way side....and now that i think about it, it really does sicken me that a film about absolutely nothing can make 50 mill+ but a more important film by a spike lee or a john singleton would probably make squat.It really just shows the stupity of pop culture now a days,but I digress on THAT topic. Anyway, Tyler Perry DOES suck,and I'm glad somebody finally had the guts to say it.

[Gordio]

I agree. it seems his movies look like indie type quality movies, but are really weak movies.

[One Man]

Originally Posted by Boss Fan

That's pretty much it.



Am I the only who finds his films truly hard to stomach, completely vapid, derived of all honesty and built solely on clichés and the (oh so original) idea that loud-mouth, older black women are really funny? Why the community he so obviously condescends to embraces him so and fails to see he is simply exploiting stereotypes for personal gain I will never understand.



And that is seriously more thought than I have ever put into the guy. Basically I just think his movies are tired, cringe-inducingly unfunny and obnoxious.



Like one of the Tomatometer critic’s quipped, "as long as there are people who find Spike Lee films to challenging," I guess we will have to live with Tyler Perry's of cinema. But I guess if I was a crappy film maker and could make cheap, easy movies that make $50+ million a pop, I would keep churning them out too.

I agree that his movies will probably never win an Oscar, but I have seen much worst. Perry is successful because he fills a niche that is pretty much ignored in Hollywood (Movies aimed at Black Christians). Some people can relate to the Madea character because some people know a person LIKE Madea. Also, I like the fact that he is filming his movies in Atlanta instead of New York or LA like everyone else does. It makes sense to showcase the city that has the largest black middle and upper class outside of the DC area. The man has given a lot of black actors and actresses work. In a time where it takes Halle Berry to play a loose and distraught Southern black woman and Denzel to play a crooked cop to win an Oscar, you take what you can get.

Initially, Perry's movies always had a woman being saved by Madea from some female beating man kind of like his plays. I haven't seen his latest movie, but it is my understanding there is no Madea character in this one. I am glad of that. I think the quality of his movies will get better over time.

[Boss Fan]

Originally Posted by One Man

I agree that his movies will probably never win an Oscar, but I have seen much worst. Perry is successful because he fills a niche that is pretty much ignored in Hollywood (Movies aimed at Black Christians). Some people can relate to the Madea character because some people know a person LIKE Madea. Also, I like the fact that he is filming his movies in Atlanta instead of New York or LA like everyone else does. It makes sense to showcase the city that has the largest black middle and upper class outside of the DC area. The man has given a lot of black actors and actresses work. In a time where it takes Halle Berry to play a loose and distraught Southern black woman and Denzel to play a crooked cop to win an Oscar, you take what you can get.

Initially, Perry's movies always had a woman being saved by Madea from some female beating man kind of like his plays. I haven't seen his latest movie, but it is my understanding there is no Madea character in this one. I am glad of that. I think the quality of his movies will get better over time.

That is a well-said, eloquent response, especially considering you could have just told me to go **** myself; which is what I was fully prepaid to hear at least a few times (note to any future, troublemaker poster: it is not clever if you simply write, "go **** yourself," now that I have said this) from Perry fans. And I understand and sympathise with it. I wasn't trying to be a jerk; I seriously can't fathom how people find his movies funny or poignant. And I don't mean it in a way like when someone says, "I don't think so and so is funny." No, I think what Perry does is really a black-eye to cinema. The fact that his audience, which, let's keep it real here, is mainly African American, actually says his films are good because they honestly portray their culture, pretty much reinforces every stereotype that, at least to my understanding, they have worked so hard to get out from under. As a community, they embrace junk like this - films that basically portray them as the very clichés they would call someone ignorant or racist for stereotyping them as - yet they say he's keepin’ it real.



But, even if you dismiss all that, there is still the simple fact that, while he may fill a niche as you say (I agree that black Christians have as much right to have movies aimed at them as anyone, and are certainly not number one on Hollywood's agenda of people to please), his comedy is tired and unfunny. Now that may just be a matter of opinion, but a black man dressing up as a loud-mouthed, old black woman is hardly original. How is even the most pedestrian of movie-goer able, in this day and age, to watch something like that and not just groan and cringe - especially when the character looks as creepy as Perry does in drag? This would not have been fresh or edgy or any of the things Perry obviously fathoms himself as back in the early 80's, much less now. Hell, they were doing this in vaudeville in the late 19th/early 20th century and we've pretty much come to associate that type of humor from back then with racism today. Is it any better that Perry is black and does it of his own free will? And even if it were, does that make it funny? Or is it because it happens to take place under the guise of a Christian film? If so, I guess "Big Momma's House" was more of a religious experience than it was ever given credit for.



And I hope not too many people actually know someone like Madea, as you speculate. Violent, loud, obnoxious and rude... well, now we're just getting back to that stereotype stuff again. It's not funny when I encounter it in real life and it sure isn't funny for two hours in a supposed "comedy."



Now, that may all be reading too much into it, or reading it all wrong. I dunno. But I do know, even if you take away all the icky feelings I get watching these films, there is still the problem that Perry is just making redundant, unfunny movies. Everything he is doing has been done before (the cross-dressing, and now look at the plot to this film) and he's not doing it new, different, or well. It's all the more maddening that he makes a ton of money off not-very-good films just because he's filling a niche.



But I guess people will eat rump roast if they are never offered a fillet.

[One Man]

I know for a fact that not all African Americans like Perry's plays or movies. The ones that do like it because they can relate to certain issues brought up in the play or the movie. I don't know your background, but there are some things that will go over your head or you probably wouldn't find funny because you can't relate to the culture. You are right that there is nothing innovative about a black man dressing up as a woman. People are not running to the theatre because a black man is dressing up as a woman. They are going to see the movie because of the subject it covers.

"Diary of a Mad Black Woman" was about a woman who stood by her district attorney husband even after he dogs her out and leaves her for a white woman. For a lot of black women, this is a touchy issue.

"Madea's Family Reunion" centered around a woman's physical abuse by her very rich boyfriend. Again, it appeals to women.

"Daddy's Little Girls" deals with a successful female lawyer who is trying to find her Mr. Right (one that is normal and in her same socialeconomic class), but she ends up falling in love with one of her clients who is a janitor. A lot of black women can relate to this issue.

Unlike his plays, the Madea character doesn't play a strong part in the movies. Outside of the Madea character, I don't see any stereotypical about his movies. The Madea characters serves a comedy aspect. The other characters are usually diverse and serious. Comparing the Madea character to the character in the Big Momma's house is apples and oranges IMO. Usually his movies end with Christian messages.

[mstafkap]

Originally Posted by One Man

I know for a fact that not all African Americans like Perry's plays or movies. The ones that do like it because they can relate to certain issues brought up in the play or the movie. I don't know your background, but there are some things that will go over your head or you probably wouldn't find funny because you can't relate to the culture. You are right that there is nothing innovative about a black man dressing up as a woman. People are not running to the theatre because a black man is dressing up as a woman. They are going to see the movie because of the subject it covers.

"Daddy's Little Girls" deals with a successful female lawyer who is trying to find her Mr. Right (one that is normal and in her same socialeconomic class), but she ends up falling in love with one of her clients who is a **MECHANIC**. A lot of black women can relate to this issue.

Unlike his plays, the Madea character doesn't play a strong part in the movies. Outside of the Madea character, I don't see any stereotypical about his movies. The Madea characters serves a comedy aspect. The other characters are usually diverse and serious. Comparing the Madea character to the character in the Big Momma's house is apples and oranges IMO. Usually his movies end with Christian messages.

couldn't have said it better myself.... i love all of his work b/c i can relate and i wish they'd stop comparing Madea to Big Momma and Eddie Murphy's characters b/c they are totally different... to try to explain the difference to someone who doesn't understand would be impossible if they don't or have never had a "Madea" in their own life...

[Boss Fan]

Originally Posted by mstafkap

couldn't have said it better myself.... i love all of his work b/c i can relate and i wish they'd stop comparing Madea to Big Momma and Eddie Murphy's characters b/c they are totally different... to try to explain the difference to someone who doesn't understand would be impossible if they don't or have never had a "Madea" in their own life...

Yeah, that's fine, but his movies are mass-marketed to a worldwide audience, so how many of those general movie goers do you honestly think have a Madea in their life? You know damn well 90% the people who push Perry's films to a 50+million box office are just seeing them as a comedy and think there is nothing funnier than fat, old, violent, loud women.. especially when it's a guy in drag, not because they can totaly relate to someone like, or know someone like, Madea. Aren't there "message" movies from Spike Lee, John Singleton, or a ton of others that are far more honest, original and funny than Perry's tired shtick? Why can't he speak to his audience without spewing clieches at them?

[kentuckybootleg]

Serious question. How is this film in the 'Madea' Universe?

[mstafkap]

Originally Posted by Boss Fan

Yeah, that's fine, but his movies are mass-marketed to a worldwide audience, so how many of those general movie goers do you honestly think have a Madea in their life? You know damn well 90% the people who push Perry's films to a 50+million box office are just seeing them as a comedy and think there is nothing funnier than fat, old, violent, loud women.. especially when it's a guy in drag, not because they can totaly relate to someone like, or know someone like, Madea. Aren't there "message" movies from Spike Lee, John Singleton, or a ton of others that are far more honest, original and funny than Perry's tired shtick? Why can't he speak to his audience without spewing clieches at them?

well i don't know about 90%, i just know of maybe .004% see them as something comforting and uplifting, not just the comedy of it....and i'm sure the money coming from it and everything else is very much welcomed, but i think what matters alot to Tyler is what we say, think, feel, how we react, and what we get out of his work... 'we' being a great number of people from all over... go and look for yourself on his website in the message boards... bottom line is it's just a matter of personal preference...there are movies, music, television shows, etc that i prefer to watch/listen to and some not and those that i do not prefer, i don't watch or listen and then tear it apart and call it trash.... and what the heck is wrong with fat, old, violent, loud women, especially when it's a guy in 'character'?

[mstafkap]

Originally Posted by kentuckybootleg

Serious question. How is this film in the 'Madea' Universe?

what do you mean?

[kentuckybootleg]

Originally Posted by mstafkap

what do you mean?

What I'm getting from all yours and others posts are talk of the Tyler Perry drag character and after seeing this film i don't see the connection. Sorry if I misread.

[skirby1224]

Originally Posted by One Man
I agree that his movies will probably never win an Oscar, but I have seen much worst. Perry is successful because he fills a niche that is pretty much ignored in Hollywood (Movies aimed at Black Christians). Some people can relate to the Madea character because some people know a person LIKE Madea. Also, I like the fact that he is filming his movies in Atlanta instead of New York or LA like everyone else does. It makes sense to showcase the city that has the largest black middle and upper class outside of the DC area. The man has given a lot of black actors and actresses work. In a time where it takes Halle Berry to play a loose and distraught Southern black woman and Denzel to play a crooked cop to win an Oscar, you take what you can get.

Initially, Perry's movies always had a woman being saved by Madea from some female beating man kind of like his plays. I haven't seen his latest movie, but it is my understanding there is no Madea character in this one. I am glad of that. I think the quality of his movies will get better over time.

That is a well-said, eloquent response, especially considering you could have just told me to go **** myself; which is what I was fully prepaid to hear at least a few times (note to any future, troublemaker poster: it is not clever if you simply write, "go **** yourself," now that I have said this) from Perry fans. And I understand and sympathise with it. I wasn't trying to be a jerk; I seriously can't fathom how people find his movies funny or poignant. And I don't mean it in a way like when someone says, "I don't think so and so is funny." No, I think what Perry does is really a black-eye to cinema. The fact that his audience, which, let's keep it real here, is mainly African American, actually says his films are good because they honestly portray their culture, pretty much reinforces every stereotype that, at least to my understanding, they have worked so hard to get out from under. As a community, they embrace junk like this - films that basically portray them as the very clichés they would call someone ignorant or racist for stereotyping them as - yet they say he's keepin’ it real.



But, even if you dismiss all that, there is still the simple fact that, while he may fill a niche as you say (I agree that black Christians have as much right to have movies aimed at them as anyone, and are certainly not number one on Hollywood's agenda of people to please), his comedy is tired and unfunny. Now that may just be a matter of opinion, but a black man dressing up as a loud-mouthed, old black woman is hardly original. How is even the most pedestrian of movie-goer able, in this day and age, to watch something like that and not just groan and cringe - especially when the character looks as creepy as Perry does in drag? This would not have been fresh or edgy or any of the things Perry obviously fathoms himself as back in the early 80's, much less now. Hell, they were doing this in vaudeville in the late 19th/early 20th century and we've pretty much come to associate that type of humor from back then with racism today. Is it any better that Perry is black and does it of his own free will? And even if it were, does that make it funny? Or is it because it happens to take place under the guise of a Christian film? If so, I guess "Big Momma's House" was more of a religious experience than it was ever given credit for.



And I hope not too many people actually know someone like Madea, as you speculate. Violent, loud, obnoxious and rude... well, now we're just getting back to that stereotype stuff again. It's not funny when I encounter it in real life and it sure isn't funny for two hours in a supposed "comedy."



Now, that may all be reading too much into it, or reading it all wrong. I dunno. But I do know, even if you take away all the icky feelings I get watching these films, there is still the problem that Perry is just making redundant, unfunny movies. Everything he is doing has been done before (the cross-dressing, and now look at the plot to this film) and he's not doing it new, different, or well. It's all the more maddening that he makes a ton of money off not-very-good films just because he's filling a niche.



But I guess people will eat rump roast if they are never offered a fillet.




I Have just recently seen Tyler Perry's new movie and i just want to say that i think that all of his movies have a positive message that we do not seem to see any more i think that sometime showcasing the negative bring a positive if you contiually see the negative i think that you will want to be more positive and no longer be portrayed in that manner. Strive to be number one.

[mstafkap]

Originally Posted by kentuckybootleg

What I'm getting from all yours and others posts are talk of the Tyler Perry drag character and after seeing this film i don't see the connection. Sorry if I misread.

ohhh i see.... no connection b/c as you can see, she wasn't in this one, but ppl keep bringing her up just like when ppl talk about Tyler, they gotta bring up Madea, and in the same breath talk about or compare him to Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence but leave out Robin Williams, Arnold S., Patrick Swayze, Wesley Snipes, and other Men that were in the movies dressed as women or even Tom Hanks from his Bosom Buddy days...

[Boss Fan]

Originally Posted by mstafkap

ohhh i see.... no connection b/c as you can see, she wasn't in this one, but ppl keep bringing her up just like when ppl talk about Tyler, they gotta bring up Madea, and in the same breath talk about or compare him to Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence but leave out Robin Williams, Arnold S., Patrick Swayze, Wesley Snipes, and other Men that were in the movies dressed as women or even Tom Hanks from his Bosom Buddy days...

Yeah, that was all crap too.

[ebonflux]

[QUOTE=qurary88]I completely agree,but don't worry, tyler perry movies are nothing more than a passing fad. Once people figure out that the man has nothing to say(as do the critics)then this guy will probably float by the way side....and now that i think about it, it really does sicken me that a film about absolutely nothing can make 50 mill+ but a more important film by a spike lee or a john singleton would probably make squat.It really just shows the stupity of pop culture now a days,but I digress on THAT topic. Anyway, Tyler Perry DOES suck,and I'm glad somebody finally had the guts to say it.[/QU


If you've ever seen his plays, you'd see that Tyler has a lot to say on issues that the black community faces nowadays. And, he says quite a lot in his movies as well. Look at how, in "Diary of a Mad Black Woman", that a very handsome black guy wanted to build a real relationship with the woman he was interested in or the how the movie dealt with the issue of forgiveness, among other issues. Like I said, that man has a lot to say.

[Boss Fan]

[QUOTE=ebonflux]

Originally Posted by qurary88

I completely agree,but don't worry, tyler perry movies are nothing more than a passing fad. Once people figure out that the man has nothing to say(as do the critics)then this guy will probably float by the way side....and now that i think about it, it really does sicken me that a film about absolutely nothing can make 50 mill+ but a more important film by a spike lee or a john singleton would probably make squat.It really just shows the stupity of pop culture now a days,but I digress on THAT topic. Anyway, Tyler Perry DOES suck,and I'm glad somebody finally had the guts to say it.[/QU


If you've ever seen his plays, you'd see that Tyler has a lot to say on issues that the black community faces nowadays. And, he says quite a lot in his movies as well. Look at how, in "Diary of a Mad Black Woman", that a very handsome black guy wanted to build a real relationship with the woman he was interested in or the how the movie dealt with the issue of forgiveness, among other issues. Like I said, that man has a lot to say.

Uh-Hu. If you believe that I got a bridge to sell ya.

[johnnybgoode]

I never saw a Tyler Perry movie before Daddy's Little Girls. The thought of seeing a man dressed as a huge, rude loudmouth African-American woman like Madea just wasn't amusing to me.

After seeing Daddy's Little Girls, I was (surprisingly) impressed. This movie mirrors reality in some ways. There are currently very few African-American men in graduate school, so professional African-American women do have trouble finding men on their so-called level. African-American fathers do face an uphill battle economically and due to bias in the courts in having stable relationships with and protecting their children. The deadbeat dad and struggling single mom stereotypes to the contrary, there are such things as devoted fathers and dangerously unfit mothers.

I think that the reason this movie hit home for me is that similar events took place in my own life. My own family was victimized by a drug dealer and our father was unable to help protect us because after divorce he had no standing in our lives. Some people really got hurt as a result. While Tyler Perry's style is unsubtle and quite melodramatic at times, at times this man does showcase some real issues facing the African-American community.

[neeka0912]

To comment towards the statements of Boss Fan,

Its completely okay to not be able to relate to any of the tyler perry plays [and please remember that's what they are. he chooses not to do broadway plays or all out movies to keep it simple] and please please please dont tell the "black community" how offended it should feel. if anything, the sterotypes come from movies like spike lee. tyler perry plays wouldnt want an oscar knowing what type of critics it comes from. not downing oscar-winning films, but those awards are established for certain types of movies. the plays are great. people enjoy them because they remind them of how life from their perspective really is. because we cant relate to movies like Daddy Day Care and Cheaper By the Dozen. and the thing is Madea isnt just loud and obnoxious, she's old school. damn near everyone knows exactly where she's coming from. maybe the plays arent made for people who dont come from a similar background, because no, i'm not sure if you would find it funny at all. if we talked about how often a white actor did the EXACT same role and movie over and over and over again we'd be here for years.

if you dislike tyler perry and his plays thats fine. i'm not going to make you like him. but you simply sound arrogant and condescending, which makes it hard to respect your opinion, and you dont even have the simplest clue of what the plays are for.

[Boss Fan]

Originally Posted by neeka0912

To comment towards the statements of Boss Fan,

Its completely okay to not be able to relate to any of the tyler perry plays [and please remember that's what they are. he chooses not to do broadway plays or all out movies to keep it simple] and please please please dont tell the "black community" how offended it should feel. if anything, the sterotypes come from movies like spike lee. tyler perry plays wouldnt want an oscar knowing what type of critics it comes from. not downing oscar-winning films, but those awards are established for certain types of movies. the plays are great. people enjoy them because they remind them of how life from their perspective really is. because we cant relate to movies like Daddy Day Care and Cheaper By the Dozen. and the thing is Madea isnt just loud and obnoxious, she's old school. damn near everyone knows exactly where she's coming from. maybe the plays arent made for people who dont come from a similar background, because no, i'm not sure if you would find it funny at all. if we talked about how often a white actor did the EXACT same role and movie over and over and over again we'd be here for years.

if you dislike tyler perry and his plays thats fine. i'm not going to make you like him. but you simply sound arrogant and condescending, which makes it hard to respect your opinion, and you dont even have the simplest clue of what the plays are for.

First off, you don't know me... how do you know the plays aren't "for me." Second, you missed my point entirely; but that is a typical response whenever someone takes offense to a movie they like being criticized. But why exactly are you responding to a long-dead thread?

[neeka0912]

because i just read it looking up tyler perry. and you're right, i don't know you. sorry if you felt offended. it's pretty obvious the plays aren't for you because you didn't enjoy them. but don't worry, i got your point. you think the plays are remedial because of the madea character and what she and the plays seem to represent. all i'm trying to say is that doesn't make them ridiculous. it's a perspective thing.

[lemuely]

Originally Posted by qurary88

I completely agree,but don't worry, tyler perry movies are nothing more than a passing fad. Once people figure out that the man has nothing to say(as do the critics)then this guy will probably float by the way side....and now that i think about it, it really does sicken me that a film about absolutely nothing can make 50 mill+ but a more important film by a spike lee or a john singleton would probably make squat.It really just shows the stupity of pop culture now a days,but I digress on THAT topic. Anyway, Tyler Perry DOES suck,and I'm glad somebody finally had the guts to say it.

You can say what you may good sir, but the fact of the matter is that his plays, movies, and shows took him from being homeless and living out of his car to being a billionaire. I think that alone speaks to more than just a passing fad. The movies don't speak to you, fair enough, but to belittle his, for lack of a better word, genius is in some ways overstepping your bounds. His story alone is something I would love to see portrayed as a movie. It would be a definite blockbuster if you ask me.

[mchris65]

I wish it were a passing fad, but 2 years later on this thread we're still saying Tyler Perry sucks.

[Matt P.]

the fact that tyler perry sucks has nothing to do with race, religion, economic status or anythign else like that. The movies are bad. They appeal to a low brow audience. And I would agree that they are on par with Cheaper by the Dozen, Daddy Day Care, Must Love Dogs, The Holiday and a million other crappy pap movies made with one thing in mind... money.

They know they are gonna get a certain amount of people to see these craptastic movies before they make them. The general public is really kind of stupid and go see these mindless, drone movies in hordes. So it has nothing to do with appeasing a downtrodden minority or enforcing steriotypes. They are stupid, easily written, cheaply made movies that a bunch of idiots will go see. The fact that they are being mass produced should tell you something. And yes Tyler Perry is a Genius in a way, because he found out how to make a butt load of money with minimal effort, but I think mostly he got lucky.

[rob m.]

I'm from London and was checking movie news the other day and saw "Madea Goes To Jail" as the US Box Office No.1. WTF? Is this was my initial thought, never heard of Madea and what has it done to capture this nation. Sought out the trailer and my dear lord and it was one of the dullest banal trailers I've ever seen. I checked out his sitcom work, which seems to be even worst seriously you could put the Cosby Show on after it and you'd be hard pressed to answer the question "which was filmed in the last two years and which was filmed 2 decades ago", I like the Cosby Show by the way.

I can't see this man branching over to the UK and I'm very grateful. But the "oh you just don't understand it, because it's not your background etc" doesn't wash. Nobody has ever been a Jedi but it never stopped Star Wars being good or popular.
The point simply seems to be that it doesn't matter what Tyler Perry is, has been or believes his work seems to be complete and utter crap.

[s8ist]

His movies are awful conglomerates of made-for-TV crap. If I was able to magically mix a Lifetime special with Big Momma's House I would get Tyler Perry's 'Madea' films. Maybe he does deal with African American issues, but he does so in a way similar to afterschool specials that it makes it hard for people who want more than a predictable and phoned in plot (and characters) to actually enjoy it. It's sad that for as many great black directors that we have who can artfully illustrate the problems in society, that the one director who seems more celebrated makes these issues seem like they should only matter to those who enjoy trite plots. I can already detect the criticism about my mentioning Madea, since this film isn't about Madea. Does this movie have an abuser, a handsome do-gooder, and a corny 'saved' moment?
How did I know that?

Formulaic, silly, predictable, cliched, trite, ...

Yes, he's popular and successful. Look up 'argumentum ad populum'.

[johnnybgoode]

Originally Posted by s8ist

His movies are awful conglomerates of made-for-TV crap. If I was able to magically mix a Lifetime special with Big Momma's House I would get Tyler Perry's 'Madea' films. Maybe he does deal with African American issues, but he does so in a way similar to afterschool specials that it makes it hard for people who want more than a predictable and phoned in plot (and characters) to actually enjoy it. It's sad that for as many great black directors that we have who can artfully illustrate the problems in society, that the one director who seems more celebrated makes these issues seem like they should only matter to those who enjoy trite plots. I can already detect the criticism about my mentioning Madea, since this film isn't about Madea. Does this movie have an abuser, a handsome do-gooder, and a corny 'saved' moment?
How did I know that?

Formulaic, silly, predictable, cliched, trite, ...

Yes, he's popular and successful. Look up 'argumentum ad populum'.

I can't disagree with you that Perry's movies are predictable, cliched and trite. His direction is more suited to a daytime soap opera or high school stage play than a big screen production. However, there is one question I would like to pose about this contentious issue:

What's so great about most of the rest of the movie media by comparison?

Whenever I go to the movies, I'm usually in for lots and lots of violence and sex. Recently, we've had other movies dominating the box office like Friday the 13th and other slasher / horror movies that are also "formulaic, silly, perdictable, cliched and trite," e.g. "teens go to lake, everybody's getting butchered and nobody has the sense to get out." Other dominant movies have been the bad taste foulmouthed sex comedies of Judd Apatow, Seth Rogen and the like.

I don't think Tyler Perry's stuff is any worse than these, but I see a lot more criticism going his way. In fact, Perry's stuff is probably a lot more good natured and benign. I think the aspect that makes his movies appeal to some people is that they are about overcoming horrendous life circumstances and emerging victorious in the end. He even deals with that great unmentionable of unmentionables in the movies, religious faith, which still appeals to many people. What I've seen of his work (which isn't much) always disappoints me in terms of his direction, dialogue and acting, but I can see why his themes appeal to a lot of people. Maybe they are tired of all this formulaic sex and violence and just want to see a happy ending for a change.

[Matt P.]

Originally Posted by johnnybgoode

I can't disagree with you that Perry's movies are predictable, cliched and trite. His direction is more suited to a daytime soap opera or high school stage play than a big screen production. However, there is one question I would like to pose about this contentious issue:

What's so great about most of the rest of the movie media by comparison?

Whenever I go to the movies, I'm usually in for lots and lots of violence and sex. Recently, we've had other movies dominating the box office like Friday the 13th and other slasher / horror movies that are also "formulaic, silly, perdictable, cliched and trite," e.g. "teens go to lake, everybody's getting butchered and nobody has the sense to get out." Other dominant movies have been the bad taste foulmouthed sex comedies of Judd Apatow, Seth Rogen and the like.

I don't think Tyler Perry's stuff is any worse than these, but I see a lot more criticism going his way. In fact, Perry's stuff is probably a lot more good natured and benign. I think the aspect that makes his movies appeal to some people is that they are about overcoming horrendous life circumstances and emerging victorious in the end. He even deals with that great unmentionable of unmentionables in the movies, religious faith, which still appeals to many people. What I've seen of his work (which isn't much) always disappoints me in terms of his direction, dialogue and acting, but I can see why his themes appeal to a lot of people. Maybe they are tired of all this formulaic sex and violence and just want to see a happy ending for a change.

I agree that most of the movies out there are more of the same and basically crappy. But I think the point here is that "Medea goes to Jail" was #1 in the box office for quite a while. "Friday the 13th" was also #1 and is quite possibly a worse movie than "Madea (Ernest) goes to Jail". So yes, the majority of people who storm the box office basically go to see stupid predictable movies because their minds can't handle anythign more.

But I think that some of the comedies you've hinted at have alot more going for them than you give them credit for. "Fired Up".. now that is a stupid mindless comedy. But I think things like "Knocked Up" or "Role Models" actually have some viable substance to them, exactly because they aren't the normal brain dead comedy. They have wit and an off beat sense of humor and don't really involve sex that much.

I'm sick of people defending Tyler Perry because he has a wholesome message, which is basically just BS. Whoesome isn't fun, funny, edgy, artistic, or anything else that makes a movie worth watching... it isn't even heart-wrenching... it's BORING! So yes, I'd rather see someone get their brains blown out or someone being ravished till they pass out if done in a way that makes it more than just filth or violence... or maybe, just maybe tell me a story that makes me think or feel.

Yet this is all coming from someone who doesn't like Tyler Perry or "Hes Just Not That Into You" or "27 Dresses" or any other craptastic garbage in that vain that becomes popular in this society. So I guess I'm not in tune with what most people like... and I'm glad I'm not.

[johnnybgoode]

Originally Posted by Matt P.

I think that some of the comedies you've hinted at have alot more going for them than you give them credit for. "Fired Up".. now that is a stupid mindless comedy. But I think things like "Knocked Up" or "Role Models" actually have some viable substance to them, exactly because they aren't the normal brain dead comedy. They have wit and an off beat sense of humor and don't really involve sex that much.

I'm sick of people defending Tyler Perry because he has a wholesome message, which is basically just BS. Whoesome isn't fun, funny, edgy, artistic, or anything else that makes a movie worth watching... it isn't even heart-wrenching... it's BORING! So yes, I'd rather see someone get their brains blown out or someone being ravished till they pass out if done in a way that makes it more than just filth or violence... or maybe, just maybe tell me a story that makes me think or feel.

Yet this is all coming from someone who doesn't like Tyler Perry or "Hes Just Not That Into You" or "27 Dresses" or any other craptastic garbage in that vain that becomes popular in this society. So I guess I'm not in tune with what most people like... and I'm glad I'm not.

I agree with you, some of the comedies you mention like "Knocked Up" do have more going for them than just sheer vulgarity, but some of those other Apatow / Rogen products and their clones don't. However, I am not just defending Tyler Perry because he's "wholesome," I defend him because all this equally bad or worse stuff out there isn't getting anywhere near the same amount of grief. Friday the 13th, the Saw series, other cheap horror flicks, unfunny worn-out comedies, crappy remakes where modern special effects are the only virtue - why aren't they being put down also?

Personally, I wouldn't prefer to see someone getting their brains blown out over something with an optimistic theme. I don't find wholesome boring at all. I've seen way too much real-life violence to not find it a real downer, but that's just my perspective.

I don't think Perry's movies would sell half as well if some really good filmmakers were putting out more positive, uplifting stuff. I think that right now Hollyweird is so obsessed with remakes that are nowhere near as good as the originals and formulaic sex, horror, darkness and violence that he's got the happy ending genre mostly to himself. I hope somebody will come along soon that can bring the same themes to a movie - but not in the amateurish way Perry does it.

Not being in tune with what other people like probably just means you have better taste.